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Author Topic: Judyth Vary Baker for guest  (Read 2672 times)
harry
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« on: April 16, 2009, 06:19:05 PM »

I would like to hear more from Judyth Vary Baker.  I saw her exerpt ("The Love Affair") on The Men Who Killed Kennedy '03, and her story was the most informative and amazing I've heard; primarily 'cause she explains all the mysteries about Oswald, such as his trip to Mexico City and why he was so determined to get to Cuba immediately. Perhaps the most important info from the story was that Oswald supposedly told her that the assassination was because of Bobby Baker and Billy Sol Estes, and to remember those names.  I haven't seen any discreditation of her story, yet nobody seems to want to interview her.  Am I missing something?  thanx, harry

"I never metaphor I didn't liken."   -harry ashburn
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Torontotool
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2009, 03:58:38 AM »

It's pretty hard to discredit someone with as sharp a memory for details as Judith possesses.

The only ones who do try to discret her are - SURPRISE! - the McAdams and Reitzes of the world.  Those two clowns never met a fact they didn't like...to deny, suppress, or alter!

Judith's wealth of information makes her such an invaluable witness that I think the LN cabal would prefer to keep her quiet by sweeping her existence under the rug.
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PurpleHaze
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2009, 02:05:56 PM »

harry wrote:

I would like to hear more from Judyth Vary Baker. I saw her exerpt ("The Love Affair") on The Men Who Killed Kennedy '03, and her story was the most informative and amazing I've heard; primarily 'cause she explains all the mysteries about Oswald, such as his trip to Mexico City and why he was so determined to get to Cuba immediately. Perhaps the most important info from the story was that Oswald supposedly told her that the assassination was because of Bobby Baker and Billy Sol Estes, and to remember those names. I haven't seen any discreditation of her story, yet nobody seems to want to interview her. Am I missing something?  thanx, harry

I think she's been interviewd by Len, but I don't know what show that might've been. Personally, I don't think she's credible, at all.

Re: Baker, Estes, LBJ, and RFK...

Did RFK inadvertently help get JFK killed?
http://www.blackopforum.info/index.php/topic,275.0.html

"It has been argued that the possible loss of the vice presidency provided Johnson with a motive to remove Kennedy from power." 
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/lofiversion/index.php/t2310.html

Between these two 23-24-year-old party girls, [Mary Jo Kopechne and Carole Tyler] it is alleged that a story was leaked to press acquaintances that JFK was going to dump LBJ as vice president in 1964, due to the incipient scandals associated with Bobby Baker that went far beyond the financing of the Carousel. This was all part of Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy’s effort to “flip” Baker to testify against LBJ and his corrupt Texas and US Senate cronies. The two women also leaked the allegation that JFK had offered the slot to Sen. Smathers.  http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1689.shtml

Torontotool wrote:

It's pretty hard to discredit someone with as sharp a memory for details as Judith possesses.

Nut cases often concoct elaborate stories.

The only ones who do try to discret her are - SURPRISE! - the McAdams and Reitzes of the world

Are you sure about that?

Those two clowns never met a fact they didn't like...to deny, suppress, or alter!

Judith's wealth of information makes her such an invaluable witness that I think the LN cabal would prefer to keep her quiet by sweeping her existence under the rug.


McAdams has a full page devoted to her on his site, so it doesn't seem that he, at least, is trying to "sweep her existence under the rug."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm
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PurpleHaze
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 03:40:27 PM »

Harry, if you're still out there, I found the air date of the BlackOp Judyth Baker interview. I also found an excerpt somewhere, (below) but forgot to copy the address - sorry.

Judyth Vary Baker - May 13, 2004 - show 171
http://www.blackopradio.com/inc_archives2004.html

In a 2004 interview with the Internet program Black Op Radio, Judyth again discussed the early days of the alleged friendship between Lee Oswald and Dave Ferrie:

Q. Now, did you feel as though there was a close friendship between Lee and Ferrie? Or how would you describe their relationship?

A. Oh, absolutely! However, it had a rocky start. Um, unfortunately for Lee, um, Dave Ferrie was not very, um, diplomatic, shall we say in, uh, handling of young boys, and he's, of course, become notorious, but in my opinion, it's been overblown. Although, of course, I was his friend so I'm prejudiced, I suppose. But there is no doubt that Dave Ferrie made a pass at Lee Oswald, and Lee did rebuke it and reject it, and, uh -- Lee had seen a lot, he had grown up in New Orleans, so he knew what Dave was trying to do. And he also knew how to fight. And Dave ended up respecting Lee. But he loosened his tooth. . . .

Dave smacked him in the mouth pretty hard and beat him. He really got angry because Lee was taunting him and everything, you know. And, uh, resisting. And then he realized that Lee's mother was dating Sam Termine. Uh, he was, at one time had been a driver for Carlos Marcello. And then he remembered Lee's uncle was really, was a boxer (laughs) and was really lovely, and he -- Dave Ferrie was in big trouble. He had blood coming out of Lee's mouth and everything. The tooth was very loose. He was afraid it would come out. He told Lee to be sure and get milk if it came out. He gave him twenty dollars, uh, so he could go to a dentist if it came out.

Well, it wasn't a week later, so he got smacked mouth really hard by a football player who was a friend of some kid that Lee had had a fight with or something at school. Anyway, uh, there's this famous picture of Lee Oswald with no tooth. . . .

Well, just like any teenager who wants to save his front tooth, Lee saved his tooth, put it in milk, went to the dentist, had it pushed in, and sewed in, and it took. It was not lost. They ["two Oswalds" theorists] don't like to hear that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Judyth, Dave Ferrie, and Oswald's Tooth


Judyth Baker says that David Ferrie punched Oswald in the mouth and loosened a front tooth that subsequently fell out; she says the tooth is missing in this photograph of young Oswald. But this photograph was published in Oswald's junior high school yearbook several months before (by all accounts, including Judyth's) Oswald could have met David Ferrie.
http://www.jfk-online.com/judyth-tooth.html

The infernal Dave Reitzes compiled:

Judyth Vary Baker worked for the CIA on an anti-Castro assassination project, and she can prove it. (1)

Judyth was never an employee or agent of the CIA, and never said she was. (2)

Judyth was introduced to Lee Oswald one day in New Orleans. (3)

No one introduced Judyth and Oswald; they met purely by chance. (4)

Or maybe not. (5)

Oswald worked for the CIA on an anti-Castro assassination project (and others), and Judyth can prove it. (6)

Oswald may not have worked for the CIA after all. (7)

A photograph published in the Warren Commission Report shows Judyth standing next to Oswald. 8

There are no photographs depicting both Judyth and Oswald, and Judyth has never claimed otherwise. (9)

Judyth met Jack Ruby only once. (10)

Judyth met Jack Ruby twice. (11)

David Atlee Phillips was one of Oswald's CIA handlers. (12)

David Atlee Phillips may not have been one of Oswald's CIA handlers. (13)

Oswald knew Phillips by name. (14)

Oswald did not know Phillips by name. (15)

Oswald knew his handler as "Bishop." (16)

Oswald did not know his handler as "Bishop." (17)

"Bishop" was Phillips. (18)

"Bishop" and Phillips may have been two different people. (19)

Oswald said that Phillips was "Bishop." (20)

Oswald never said that Phillips was "Bishop." (21)

Oswald knew his handler as "Mr. B." (22)

Oswald did not know his handler as "Mr. B." (23)

"Mr. B" was Phillips. (24)

"Mr. B" may not have been Phillips. (25)

"Mr. B" may have been two different people, one of whom may have been Phillips. (26)

"Mr. B" was also "Bishop." (27)

"Mr. B" was not also "Bishop." (28)

Phillips was known as "Mr. Benson" or "Mr. Benton." (29)

"Mr. Benson" or "Mr. Benton" may have been somebody else. (30)

"Mr. B," "Mr. Bishop," and "Mr. Benson" or "Mr. Benton" were all the same person. (31)

"Mr. B," "Mr. Bishop," and "Mr. Benson" or "Mr. Benton" may have been at least two different people. (32)

Judyth met Guy Banister just once. (33)

Judyth met Guy Banister twice. (34)

Guy Banister was CIA. (35)

Guy Banister was not CIA, and Judyth never said he was. (36)

and on and on and on...

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=13&topic_id=1&sub_topic_id=2&mesg_id=&page=#108

Judyth claims she was singled out, whisked away, met with scientists, doctors, military officers and a couple people from the CIA, signed a loyalty oath and was told to write to both President Kennedy and Walter Reed Institute … all while at the National Science and Engineering Fair in Indianapolis, May 1960.

That cannot be because there was no President Kennedy in May 1960.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/science_fair.htm

AMERICAN CREAM   http://www.angelfire.com/hi/avary/
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Aceman1
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2009, 01:19:58 PM »

Hi.

It's probably worthwhile noting that Jim Di Eugenio completely and utterly discounts this woman's testimony.

"Not sayin', just sayin'".
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harry
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 06:36:24 AM »

@Purplehaze: thanx!
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PurpleHaze
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 12:15:02 PM »

@Purplehaze: thanx!

That was almost a year ago, Harry! But, you soytenly be welcome. There are at least two posts on the board that I've been meaning to respond to for a couple of weeks or so, but I've just been feeling too crappy to actually do it. Maybe in a year or so...  Wink

Do you still think Baker's for real? If she is, it's an amazing story.
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harry
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2010, 06:23:47 PM »

@Purplehaze: do I think Baker's for real?  YES!  she's the most revealing testimony I've ever heard. Why?

  - LHO's reason for going to Mexico City. Makes perfect sense.  he was desperate to get to Cuba to deliver the virus.  The courier he was supposed to meet in Mexico city couldn't come ' cause of the hurricane.  He went to the Cuban embassy. He cant get a visa to go to Cuba unless he's in transit to the Soviet Union.  He goes to the Soviet embassy desperate to get a visa.  He's turned- down both places.

 -  the white rats: We know both Ferrie and Ruby were raising white rats, and Ferrie claimed to be involved in cancer research.  We know that the 2 scientists, Mary somebody and Dr. Somebody were real and associated with the CIA.
The virus was a potent cancer-in-a-needle concoction.  Was it a coincidence that Jack Ruby, a non-smoker, contracted and died of lung cancer in 4 months?  Same with Clay Shaw.

 - the LBJ connection: one of the last things Judy said LHO said to her was "this is all about Bobby Baker and Billy Sol Estes. Remember those names."

Those are just the top 3 of many.  Could explain why LHO no longer had sexual interest in his wife.  He wasn't impotent; he was spent.
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"Anthropologists agree; the evolution of face-to-face copulation among humans marks a seminal change of direction in relations between the sexes" - harry ashburn
PurpleHaze
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2010, 11:15:36 AM »

Expanding on my previous drivel...

@Purplehaze: do I think Baker's for real?  YES!  she's the most revealing testimony I've ever heard. Why?

- LHO's reason for going to Mexico City. Makes perfect sense. he was desperate to get to Cuba to deliver the virus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDZBgHBHQT8  Wink

Just kidding you with the X-Files. All I can say is that Baker seems like a complete fraud to me. It's as much a gut feeling as anything else. When I observe/listen to her, she just seems very phony, and then there's the question of her ever changing story, of course. It's funny (ha ha, ho ho, hee hee) how people can consider the same source and evidence and draw completely different conclusions, isn't it?

Based on the following, it's possible that RFK got JFK killed.   

- the LBJ connection: one of the last things Judy said LHO said to her was "this is all about Bobby Baker and Billy Sol Estes. Remember those names."

...W. Penn Jones claimed that in 1963 Kennedy decided that Johnson was to be replaced by George Smathers:

Bobby Baker was about the first person in Washington to know that Lyndon Johnson was to be dumped as the Vice-Presidential candidate in 1964. Baker knew that President Kennedy had offered the spot on the ticket to Senator George Smathers of Florida... Baker knew because his secretary. Miss Nancy Carole Tyler, roomed with one of George Smathers' secretaries. Miss Mary Jo Kopechne had been another of Smathers' secretaries. Now both Miss Tyler and Miss Kopechne have died strangely.

It has been argued that the possible loss of the vice presidency provided Johnson with a motive to remove Kennedy from power. However, Robert Kennedy rejected the idea that his brother intended to replace Johnson as Vice President. He told John Bartlow Martin in 1964: “There was never any intention of dropping him (Johnson). There was never even any discussion about dropping him.”   http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/lofiversion/index.php/t2310.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bizarrely, Mary Jo Kopechne of Chappaquiddick fame was a secretary to Sen. George Smathers in 1963. Her roommate at the time in the Washington area was Carole Tyler, who was a secretary of bad boy Bobby Baker, close associate of LBJ. You could say that at the time Bobby Baker was Vice President Johnson’s Scooter Libby.

But Baker was allegedly an all-around ne’er-do-well, particularly in association with casino interests in the Caribbean and military contractors. Since Baker is still alive, his stories are not yet fully told. Baker owned the house where Tyler and Kopechne were roommates, which he continued to use for hosting various parties while the girls lived there.

Later, Carole Tyler was said to be quite upset when Baker didn’t leave his wife to marry her -- and she unfortunately died in 1965 in the crash of small plane in Ocean City, Maryland, where Baker owned the Carousel Hotel, on the beach at 118th Street. Notably, in November, 1963, Baker made the cover of Life Magazine above a headline, “Bobby Baker’s Bombshell,” which told of a Department of Justice investigation into tax evasion and fraud in regards to the financing of the construction of the massive Carousel resort a year or two earlier.

Between these two 23-24-year-old party girls, it is alleged that a story was leaked to press acquaintances that JFK was going to dump LBJ as vice president in 1964, due to the incipient scandals associated with Bobby Baker that went far beyond the financing of the Carousel. JFK even hinted at this in a press conference not long before he died.

This was all part of Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy’s effort to “flip” Baker to testify against LBJ and his corrupt Texas and US Senate cronies. The two women also leaked the allegation that JFK had offered the slot to Sen.Smathers. This fact was later confirmed by JFK’s personal secretary, Evelyn Lincoln. Ms. Lincoln did say that JFK had also been considering offering the job to Gov. Terry Sanford of North Carolina.   http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1689.shtml

http://www.blackopforum.info/index.php/topic,275.msg1092.html#msg1092
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harry
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2010, 06:45:33 PM »

Hey, Purple Haze, You say:  "Robert Kennedy rejected the idea that his brother intended to replace Johnson as Vice President. ".

RFK doesn't lie? He didn't steal JFK's brain and other forensic evidence? He didn't try to have Fidel killed, or Marilyn Monroe?

In 1964, LBJ was running for re-election. RFK was a loyal Democrat. What did you expect him to say?

The rest of your post seems to bolster Baker's story, don't you think?
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PurpleHaze
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2010, 12:32:13 AM »

Harry wrote:

Hey, Purple Haze, You say: "Robert Kennedy rejected the idea that his brother intended to replace Johnson as Vice President."

I was quoting from Jerry Mazza's article, so I would say that he said it.

An American shadow points to LBJ by Jerry Mazza
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1689.shtml

RFK doesn't lie? He didn't steal JFK's brain and other forensic evidence? He didn't try to have Fidel killed, or Marilyn Monroe?

You believe that RFK stole his brother's brain? We know that he tried to kill Fidel, and we've all read that both he and John were having sex with MM and that she could've been murdered by them to seal her lips. Do you believe that, too?

In 1964, LBJ was running for re-election. RFK was a loyal Democrat. What did you expect him to say?

Just another lying politician, eh?

The rest of your post seems to bolster Baker's story, don't you think?

Not at all. We know that she could read.

...one of the last things Judy said LHO said to her was "this is all about Bobby Baker and Billy Sol Estes. Remember those names."



A few posts back I included a long list of the many contradictions in Baker's story. Those, plus my gut feeling that she's just a publicity seeking freak lead me to dismiss her. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, and I can't prove that you're wrong.

Why'd you have to go and bring me down so much with your remarks about Bobby? I'm completely disillusioned now.  Wink
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harry
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2010, 07:20:01 PM »

You asked: "Why'd you have to go and bring me down so much with your remarks about Bobby? I'm completely disillusioned now."

yeah, I'm bad about that. Maybe this letter i sent to NPR today will explain it.
   re: Fess Parker:
Wow. 1955. I was 5 years old. Coonskin caps.  Davy Crockett was bigger than Elvis for 6 months or so.  My mother made me a Davy Crockett jacket, complete with fringe.  I had to be the coolest kid on the block. 
I strutted outside. My big brother and the kid next door were standing between the yards, talking. I said. "I'm Davy Crockett!".  They replied, "We're Chief Blackfoot!" and they started chasing me.  I turned around, ran a couple of steps, tripped on the sidewalk and broke my collar bone.   By the time my arm was out of the cast, it was summertime.  By that fall, I had outgrown the jacket and it had been passed - on to my cousins, as all our clothes were back then.  I only got to wear that jacket that one time.  that's why I'm the pathetic, demented individual I am today.
 
Keep yer powder dry.
 harry ashburn
   
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PurpleHaze
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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2010, 12:47:41 AM »

You asked: "Why'd you have to go and bring me down so much with your remarks about Bobby? I'm completely disillusioned now."

yeah, I'm bad about that. Maybe this letter i sent to NPR today will explain it.
   re: Fess Parker:
Wow. 1955. I was 5 years old. Coonskin caps. Davy Crockett was bigger than Elvis for 6 months or so. My mother made me a Davy Crockett jacket, complete with fringe. I had to be the coolest kid on the block. 
I strutted outside. My big brother and the kid next door were standing between the yards, talking. I said. "I'm Davy Crockett!". They replied, "We're Chief Blackfoot!" and they started chasing me. I turned around, ran a couple of steps, tripped on the sidewalk and broke my collar bone. By the time my arm was out of the cast, it was summertime. By that fall, I had outgrown the jacket and it had been passed - on to my cousins, as all our clothes were back then. I only got to wear that jacket that one time. That's why I'm the pathetic, demented individual I am today.


Keep yer powder dry.
 harry ashburn

We're the same age, Harry, and I was nuts about Davy Crockett, too. I had the coonskin cap, fringe jacket, toy flintlock... God, weren't those the days? I'm impressed that your mother actually made your jacket; sorry about the subsequent trauma! That does explain a lot...  Wink

I still have a tan, fringed leather jacket that I bought in 1968 or '69, which I wore quite often up until about the mid 70's. Kept me warm through many a cold, psychedelic night, camping in the mountains. The fringe made great "trails." Cool Don't tell anybody, but I actually have a coonskin cap, too. The better half bought it for me a few years ago. I've never ventured out in public wearing it, though. I ought to.

Just kidding about RFK.


"Be sure you're right, then go ahead."
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