I just have to reply that I believe there is a link. How is it you are an expert on these things, Aceman?

I don't know about Wakefield, but I do tend to distrust the pill and vaccine pushers and the medical establishment in general - their principle motivation is making money, after all. What do you think is responsible for the huge increases in cancer, diabetes, autism, etc, that we're experiencing now as compared to earlier times? Do you have any opinion, Nutzy or Aceman (or anybody else) on chemtrails? I'd heard about ariel spraying for a couple of years before I started taking it seriously, but I definitely do now. I was working outside one day, took a break, looked up, and observed about a dozen aircraft leaving both parallel and crossing trails in the sky. These trails, unlike the common contrails we're all used to seeing, never dissipated, but slowly spread out until the entire sky was covered with an artificial cloud. It happens all the time, it's definitely unnatural, and I'm pretty sure it's not intended to improve our health.

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ 

[quote author=Aceman1 link=topic=521.msg2525#msg2525 date=1278799961]
Sorry Purplehaze. Not ignoring you, just not had time to read your links! Will definitely give it a perusal.[/quote]

Don't worry about ignoring me. It's... OK. I'm a real (sob, sob, sob) tough guy, ya know? Pass the kleenex, please... Bwaaaa...  ;)

Congressman Kucinich introduced a bill a few years back demanding disclosure of exactly what the hell they're spraying on us, and why, but it got "shelved" and there's still no official answer. This is happening pretty much world wide.

Beyond the spraying, of course, we've got a few other little problems going on. "Justice for JFK" is at the very top of the list, of course. What could be more important than that?


http://www.dieoff.org/

It’s official. As of last week, according to the United Nations, over one billion people are now starving to death. That’s one in six people across the globe. That’s an 11 percent jump from last year.  http://ncronline.org/blogs/road-peace/one-billion-people-are-now-starving

Every year 15 million children die of hunger
For the price of one missile, a school full of hungry children could eat lunch every day for 5 years.
http://library.thinkquest.org/C002291/high/present/stats.htm

Small-scale farmers and their families are a majority in many Third World countries. These farmers and others go hungry because the fertile lands on which the farmers used to grow affordable food for themselves and their countrymen have been stolen to grow export crops, usually in conjunction with U.S. agribusiness companies. The bulk of world hunger, killing nearly twenty million people a year, is caused not by droughts, overpopulation or scarcity of food, but by this type of injustice.

The United States is the key player in this global food system. First, our huge, comparatively wealthy population creates enormous demand for these export crops, fueling the spread of export agriculture around the world.

Second, the United States has always provided crucial support -- political, economic and military -- to the undemocratic (or pseudo-democratic) governments which rule in the interest of those who steal the land, and brutally crush any protests against that theft.
http://www.theradicaltruth.com/Footnotes/ff-starve-fn.htm


http://www.mcspotlight.org/case/pretrial/factsheet.html

Rainforest Destruction


The rainforest is home to over fifty percent of all plants and animals on earth. It is the earth's living lungs--it breathes in carbon dioxide and breathes out oxygen. Unless conservation efforts in the tropics are intensified, most rainforests will disappear early next century. We lose 50 million acres of rainforest per year -- about a football field per second.

The driving forces behind rainforest loss are: agriculture, cattle raising, logging, oil and gas pipelines and plantations.
http://www.redjellyfish.com/rain-forest/rainforest-destruction.html

The world's supply of fresh water is running out. Already one person in five has no access to safe drinking water.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/2000/world_water_crisis/default.stm

...the planet is running out of fresh water at such a rate that soon it will be the most valuable commodity on earth.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=5795



...no more seafood after 2048 at current rates
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/061102_seafood.htm

There will be virtually nothing left to fish from the seas by the middle of the century if current trends continue, according to a major scientific study. Stocks have collapsed in nearly one-third of sea fisheries, and the rate of decline is accelerating.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6108414.stm

Overfishing and destructive fishing techniques are killing entire ocean ecosystems. Hundreds of tons of unwanted fish and other marine animals are wasted yearly. Factory trawlers, gigantic ships with on-board fish processing factories, trap as many as 400 tons of fish in one sweep and haul in huge amounts of unwanted sea life. They then abandon depleted areas for fertile fishing waters elsewhere, leaving behind a ravaged ecosystem.  http://worldanimalfoundation.homestead.com/Oceans.html



Pacific Garbage Dump - "plastic soup"


Sailing the Great Pacific Garbage Patch    


Life on earth is disappearing with species hurtling towards extinction at an unprecedented rate.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/3306508/Red-List-of-endangered-species-wildlife-disappearing-as-never-before.html




Crisis Awaits World’s Banks as Trillions Come Due
“There is a cliff we are racing toward — it’s huge,” said Richard Barwell, an economist at Royal Bank of Scotland and formerly a senior economist at the Bank of England, Britain’s central bank. “No one seems to be talking about it that much.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/12/business/global/12refinance.html?_r=1



Economic Collapse
Oil is the fuel that enabled the growth of modern civilization, and all industrialized countries now rely on it to an extraordinary extent. Oil provides 40 percent of all primary energy, and 90 percent of our transportation energy. It is furthermore critical to industrial agriculture, the chemical and pharmaceutical industries, much of the clothing industry, and a vast array of others. The physical and chemical versatility of oil, combined with its high energy density, are such that no other known energy source can serve as a full or even adequate substitute. In short, oil is the lifeblood of the industrial world.  http://www.oildecline.com/page3.htm

[quote author=Nutzy link=topic=521.msg2495#msg2495 date=1277052366]
I just have to reply that I believe there is a link. How is it you are an expert on these things, Aceman?[/quote]

Are you an expert on autism and vaccines, Nutzy? I'm definitely not.

One of the things that had me concerned was the "great increase" in the number of autistic children that I'd heard about, but apparently many afflictions that were previously identified as being something else are now considered to be forms of autism; hence a great increase that really isn't there.

It seems that Wakefield made quite a bit of money off the vaccine scare. "These hourly fees - revealed in The Sunday Times in December 2006 - gave the doctor a direct, personal, but undeclared, financial interest in his research results: totalling more than eight times his reported annual salary, and creating an incentive not only for him to launch the alarm, but to keep it going for as long as possible." http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm

The pharmaceutical industry (who I generally think of as evil bastards) aren't the only ones raking in the snake oil dough. Check out these prices for products that probably don't do a damn thing: http://products.creationsown.com/allproducts.aspx

I don't think they're experts either, but here's Penn and Teller's take on the great vaccination debate.

Vaccination - Penn & Teller: Bullshit! (1/2)


Vaccination - Penn & Teller: Bullshit! (2/2)

[quote author=barbh link=topic=521.msg2574#msg2574 date=1282866750]
There is a vaccine injury fund and people have been compensated from it due to injury caused from vaccines. I tend to believe the additives in vaccines, coupled with the multiple doses given to very young children, could well be a cause of severe damage.
Here's a link to an article on a legal settlement:
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/searching-for-answers/dad-speaks-out[/quote]

I read the article, and the legal case cited doesn't prove that autism is caused by vaccines. Even the child's father, Dr. Poling, says he isn't sure, and that he isn't anti-vaccine. Perhaps the story does prove that Poling's wife is a very good attorney, if it was her who filed the case.

I see that your own comments are that you "tend to believe" that vaccines "could be a cause of severe damage." So, you aren't sure. Questioning is always a good thing, I think, but when concern and doubt are whipped into mass hysteria very bad things can result. I'm no kind of expert (not by a mile) on autism, but the more I read, the less I tend to believe that the autism-vaccine link is credible.

I think Aceman pretty well hit the nail on the head with his opening post. But, I always like to see a wider variety of topics on the board, and appreciate being challenged to expand my knowledge. (Someday, I might even need a second matchbox to keep all of that knowledge in)  ;)

"Autism symptoms tend to become apparent around the same time that children are scheduled to get routine vaccines."

"...14 studies including millions of children in several countries consistently show no significant difference in autism rates between children who got the MMR vaccine and those who didn't."  http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/searching-for-answers/vaccines-autism

Thanks, Andrew Wakefield
Thanks for bringing the measles back to the U.K. with your shoddy, litigation and profit-driven pseudoscience.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/07/thanks_andrew_wakefield.php

"Heightened awareness is not always a positive thing, if it’s awareness of misinformation. What Jenny McCarthy has done is spread demonstrable misinformation (like the false claim that vaccines contain antifreeze) which has served to confuse the public. Unscientific propaganda distracts from real science and real solutions. Misinformed parents, hoping for answers, have been lured by false claims of the so-called “mercury militia” to risky and likely ineffective treatments, like chelation therapy. Hysteria over vaccines has led to increasing numbers of parents choosing not to vaccinate their children – with resultant outbreaks of preventable diseases, like measles."
- Dr. Steven Novella, Yale University School of Medicine

Andrew Wakefield exposed as a fraud, the autism-vaccine belief is based on falsified data
“None of this will matter to antivaccinationists, who view Wakefield as a persecuted scientific hero."

"...I’m sure that [anti-vaccine proponents] will wax ridiculous about what a great doctor and man Wakefield is and how it’s big pharma and its minions who, frightened by the implications of Wakefield’s work, are working hard to demonize him and suppress his "science."
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/02/andrew-wakefield-exposed-as-fraud.html

I guess the CDC tends to believe that there's something not so great about ingredients in the vaccines:
http://www.mercurypoisoningnews.com/vacautism.html

Part One



Studies show that autism rates have increased by more than 300% over the last few years, with as many as one in every 110 children now being diagnosed as autistic. But even as the rates are reaching epidemic proportions, doctors and scientists are still completely oblivious as to the cause of this disease. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. discusses the causes that the pharmaceutical industry wants us to believe are not true with Dr. Boyd Haley, Professor Emeritus at the University of Kentucky.

click here for part two: